PUSH/PULL: Don't Get Too Close! Don't Go Away! Presented by Rick Wilkes, Cathy Vartuli Automatic MacWhisper transcript with speaker detection; light human review is still recommended. **Rick Wilkes** *00:00* Watch the QA for us. **Cathy Vartuli** *00:02* I will. **Rick Wilkes** *00:06* Push pull. Don't get too close. Don't go away Uh yeah. I'm Rick from Thriving Now. I'm here with Cathy Martuli from Thriving Now and the IntimacyDojo.com. Cathy, uh do you think it's normal in even great relationships to have a certain amount of push-pull? **Cathy Vartuli** *00:30* Mm, absolutely. I think that humans we have moods that change and some days we feel like being closer and some days we feel like we wanna have some space and that's just like we inhale and exhale. I think it's absolutely normal to have times when we our tanks are really full and we want some space or times when our tanks aren't so full and we want to be connected or vice versa depending on how we recharge. and different people recharge different ways. Some people recharge in groups, some people recharge one on one, some people recharge in nature by themselves. There's no right or wrong and there's nothing about shaming here. It's about We were talking about I think when people are feeling like they're pushing and pulling or getting part they're they're doing that when it's not useful to them. Uh or they're n there's fears that are causing that push pull to be exaggerated or to happen at times when it's actually preventing the very connection we most want, whether it's with ourselves or with other people. And I I know that people, you know, the fear of intimacy is huge for a lot of people. And some people call it attachment disorders and some you know there's all kinds of names for whatever possible you know, all the different things it could be. And I think it's really useful to look at what's going on in your life. Are you letting people close to you in a way that feels recharging and wonderful? Or are you finding yourself really struggling with the dance, but preventing you from building the connection and what you really want to have in your life. So I you know, I just invite you to tune in right now, what you know, your body. Take a nice slow deep breath Maybe close your eyes and imagine that someone you really want to be close to is wanting to get close. And notice what comes up in your body. Is it a combination Yeah, is it a combination of warm, lovey, happy and oh dear Lord, or is it running away or is it wanting to latch on, which some of us do, will will uh cling because we're afraid that everyone's gonna go away And again, there's n no right or wrong. We all just learn lessons when we're a little bit either that, you know, people we need to hold on to people to have them stay around us or we have to earn it or that um people will suffocate us if we let them too close. So again, real real wrong answer **Rick Wilkes** *02:58* So one thing you can do, Cathy just invited you to imagine and use your imagination. And I love using your our imagination to do energy work, to do emotional healing. Because the reality is, is it that's safe? You know, you're not actually asking someone to come and sit on your lap But you can imagine the person sitting down next to you, maybe touching knees, or just holding hands, or even just being closer in each other's space. what happens in your body. And for many of us, the signals can be a little mixed or a lot mixed. That's why we're talking about this this push pull. Where is there a good feeling? Is there a place in your body that feels good about having someone who is imagining someone who you'd like to be closer to sitting Close enough to you that you feel that, that you feel that their presence is with you. Where's the part of you that feels good about that? For me, I'm noticing it on the left side of my face. It there's a there's a smile, a little half smile kind of feeling. My thighs feel pretty good. Scan your body, take a moment and feel for what is Yeah, want more of that. That's good. Now does any part of you sort of blank out Checking out. For some reason, and I can't explain it, which I think is a perfect example, the right side of my face is sort of checked out right now. I was like, hmm. Uh like if I smile, it it doesn't feel symmetric. I don't know if it is symmetrical, but it doesn't feel symmetrical. Oh look. It's what? **Cathy Vartuli** *05:17* You look pretty symmetrical from here. **Rick Wilkes** *05:19* It does not. The actual sensation is that This side of my the right side of my face is not going up. There's not as much feeling. It feels sort of checked out. Now what Since we're using our imagination, you can just start tapping and notice this part of your body, tap your eyebrow, and notice Side of the eye. And notice a part of you. It's a little checked out. It's not as present as the happy part. Not pushing away, not scared, just not really at at the event. And if you need to, just imagine that person being close to you again. And if thought, this is sort of a tapping meditation. If thoughts arise, you can notice them and let them go, go under the eye. And notice that part of you. I'm getting some sensation in the side of my face. I wouldn't call it a pleasant sensation, but it's it's coming back. And under the nose. Take a breath under I take a breath under the nose. Uh And imagine the person being in your space. Now, my intuition had the person, my imagination had the person move a little closer. And Now I'm starting to notice that the right and left side of my face are starting to balance. If it's your right and left arm, if it's your chest and your belly, whatever, notice where there's a good feeling and let the good feeling invite the other parts of you to be closer. Guess what we're modeling? We're modeling closeness within our own body. We're using our imagination, but we're also tuning into the tissues of our body, the sensory no the sensoriness of us. We want all of us to be at this party. Okay? Under the arm. Take a breath again. And then just come back to yourself. Look at your hands, look around your room. This person's probably not sitting with you right now. Maybe they are, but and just let yourself come back. I'm in this room alone. Maybe I take my hands and rub the parts of me. Yeah. **Cathy Vartuli** *07:56* Yeah, so noticed your body. And um when you're you're in this meditation, it's a really powerful way to tune in. Notice that if your mind takes things off to a different direction, like Rick was saying he invited this person closer and he was going a little safer. Some of us have fears, and when we have big fears, our mind may race off. Notice if that person is suddenly berating you or suddenly uh is being mean or cold or distant. Just notice what your brain creates. This person is not real. I mean they may represent a real person to you, but they're not there in front of you right now. And what our brain is painting pictures of can sometimes be what we most fear. And what we may be actually projecting on the people around us. Sometimes we create a story and because we have such a strong script in our heads, we see it whether that person's actually doing it or not. So um, you know, when we're really interacting with them, we can actually make it so it's hard for them to be present with us because we're living our story in our head and irrespective of what they're doing. So take another nice slow deep breath. And notice how you're feeling. If you imagine like the person doing whatever you fear they'll do, like notice how you freeze up. And then if you can, notice that there that's a story you have in your head and that you can actually just be present with the image of that person And that maybe they're not trying to do anything mean or maybe they're not judging you, maybe they're just being themselves and there's nothing wrong. **Rick Wilkes** *09:40* And if what's coming up for you is from your past, if you have something to write it down, write it down as an event. But let's bring our imagination back to the present and the person that you would like to be in safe connection with, a person And if this person needs to be completely imaginary, you've never met a person in your entire life you want to sit close to, that's okay. We've done this with people who've never had a s a sexual relationship that was healthy, happy, and wonderful. And if uh tuning to a place where you start tuning in your imagination, noticing what comes up for you as you imagine this. And as Cathy said, honoring that, oh, this really is under my control. This moment, this time, this now. Your imagination is co-creating this with us, with you. And And we're going to use our skill with awareness and tapping to tune your energy and your imagination to a place where There's less of as we as Cathy mentioned, the kind of push pull energy which makes you unsettled and that other people pick up on as well and makes them feel even subconsciously uncomfortable. **Cathy Vartuli** *11:12* Yeah, when we're when we're reacting to people uh not as they are, but as we fear they will be or as we expect them to be. Um it doesn't feel authentic and it's very hard to be present. It's hard to have a real, genuine relationship with So we just did imagine, you know, Rick was talking about having someone come closer. Imagine for a moment that they're stepping back a little bit and notice what happens in your body Um, because this is a really good way to get insight. Like, okay, this person was just kind of close and now they're stepping away Is there fear? Is there distress? Is there worry? Is there relief? What do you notice around this particular person? The cool thing is you can repeat this exercise with other people in your imagination as much as you like. um where we do react different. Like if Rick comes close, I'm very, very happy. And when he steps away I don't feel nervous because we have such a beautiful relationship. But there was a long time where if he stepped away I would get like, Oh, oh, yep, everybody leaves. I had a really strong story on that. And it was stressful for both of us because He didn't feel like he felt like he had to kind of and I please correct me if I'm wrong with but uh when we talked about it it sounded like you felt like you always had to be very careful about stepping away or Like you were just aware that it would cause me distress. So you you had that extra thing to juggle. And it you know, sadly five years into our relationship before I was like, Oh, this guy shows up. This guy is not leaving. Wow, okay Um, which is a beautiful gift. But if you have those fears, they can be very loud even if someone's being really reliable. And Rick's very, very patient. Not everybody is quite that patient. Some people are like Dude, I've been here for you know three months and I haven't run away. Like why are you still stressing out? We all have different histories, so Notice what you feel. Imagine that person t just taking a step away or maybe turning their back. And it doesn't have to be judgmental. Maybe they're just looking at something in the other part of the room. Notice what comes up for you and write some of this down. really powerful things that if we realize about ourselves and can do some tapping, we can clear so much of what's going on in our world that is often subconscious and is driving us very powerful powerfully And I think more so because it's subconscious. Because we're not always aware of what's happening. And take a nice slow deep breath. **Rick Wilkes** *13:45* And if there's a sound that your body wants to make too, like like my the I'm an auditory person, so that the the imagination of that person moving away was like Oh. And it's not it's not really loud, but it's like a two in underneath my left rib cage in my lung Oh, it's like wet lung. I think even in Chinese medicine, grief and lung meridian sort of fit together. You've made a point that I want to amplify. If if these sensations happen to you But you're not aware of the sensation in your body. Your brain will create a thought about it And often that thought are the limiting beliefs like nobody loves me, everybody leaves. But the sensation itself can be as simple as someone's warmth is close, someone moves away The aw, if I'm snuggled up in bed and it's cold outside and my partner gets up to go to the bathroom, there's an aww the same sensation in my body is picking up the movement away. And there's a there can be a don't leave me that it leaps to But the more we bring our sensation to it. And and were you g about to do an exercise? **Cathy Vartuli** *15:25* Uh go ahead if you had something you wanted to say. **Rick Wilkes** *15:27* Yeah. So since we're tuned to that feeling or sound of someone moving away, uh pick your collarbone. and one or two hands. Just to allow without story or interpretation, the feeling. Oh, the feeling. of someone moving their presence, their attention away from me and onto something else. Or at a distance. Oh, that sensation. And then you can bring them back close again. Oh, my left side light my left side face lights up, my right starts catching up, and now they start leaving and I feel the sensation And I'm allowing the sensation to be okay. Collarbone. It's okay. Top it ahead. It's okay. I thought that sensation is okay. That sensation is okay. Sometimes it meant something I really hate it **Cathy Vartuli** *16:38* Sometimes it meant something I really hated. **Rick Wilkes** *16:41* Under the eye. I have an association about people moving away. **Cathy Vartuli** *16:48* I have an association with people moving away. **Rick Wilkes** *16:51* Under the nose. I'm open to having fresh associations every time. **Cathy Vartuli** *16:59* I'm open to having fresh associations every time. **Rick Wilkes** *17:05* Jen. Because it's not always the same, and I know that. **Cathy Vartuli** *17:11* Because it's not always the same and I know that. **Rick Wilkes** *17:20* We're offering these words and energy as possibilities. You may have stories that conflict with some things that I'm saying. Maybe it's always been good if somebody left. And maybe it's never been good if somebody moved away. That's what we're inviting today is that the push-pull feeling of connection between any p human beings is something that as someone gets closer to us we feel it If you're numb to it, it doesn't mean your body's not feeling it. It just means you're numb to it. If you're really hyper-reactive about it, It just means that you've got an amplifier in the same way that if I turned up the amplifier on a loudspeaker and it started going you know, squealing and complaining. It doesn't mean that the person or their energy was squealing like that, that your amplifier is on **Cathy Vartuli** *18:24* Um yeah. And and I think it's hard to have a loving relationship with someone if you have screaming in your ears, if there's some younger parts of you that are like, Oh dear Lord, this is gonna go horribly wrong one way or the other um and just realizing that that could be part of what's going on that Maybe it's not the people around you that that you think are really messed up. Maybe maybe your hamsters are making lots of noise and oh, hamsters do that sometimes and we can love them through it and we don't have to believe everything we say. So if you're noticing a lot of that, we would love to work with you. If you want to raise your hand by pressing star two or type in questions in the QA box, we will see them. **Rick Wilkes** *19:09* And we'd love to work through Yeah. I think there's a delay on our audio. Um so one of the things that I just There is a method to this. We're using our imagination, which is safe If you get used to feeling the sensations in a safe way in your imagination, then when you're with a an actual human being. you'll also be able to notice how those sensations change. For example, if someone if I'm really comfortable in my imagination, Let's say with men. Like for a long time in my life, having men close to me was not comfortable. It just was way too triggering. And so I kept my distance. And if they got close, I made it as quick and firm handshake as I could. There wasn't hugging with men. And today, after having done this type of work where I could imagine like getting body I even got to the place where it went from handshake and sitting next to each other or sitting across from each other, um, you know, hugging and to getting bodywork. And then I eventually got to the place where I could get bod from a man. And that was such a big deal. And today I can dance with and everything. But what I noticed is that When you get good in your imagination, what happens is that when something doesn't isn't a yes for you, you'll pick up on it. more clearly that the that the people that are a match for the energy that you want to have close to you will kind of naturally feel comfortable being close to you. And the people that really aren't a match you'll feel the disharmony and you'll know more clearly that, oh yeah, I can move away from that because I know what harmony feels like. I know what that safe feels like. And when people move away because they're in the cycle of connection, closeness, and further away, you'll know what that feels like. And when they're running because they're scared, you'll know what that feels like. And it feels different. And you'll notice the sensations in your body. All right. How about we do some we don't have any hands raised or questions yet, and that's that's perfectly fine. This is an interesting subject. I had a feeling Cathy and I would be coaching this way around it. So I'd like to do some tapping on the don't get too close, don't go away. And this is this is po this is like a polarity Tapping. It's like the no you can't make me tapping that we have out on thrivingnow. com. It's to acknowledge that there's a tug-of-war going on. So if you're in a place where you can say it out loud, say, Don't get too close. Don't go away. And You can accentuate it a little bit. You can be a little more desperate than you normally feel. You can be a little bit more, ugh, don't get too close. Why? Because this is really natural human. And by accentuating it a little bit, you're tuning into where in your body you may feel it. Alright? Feet on the floor. Great job. Don't get too close. **Cathy Vartuli** *22:52* Don't get too close. **Rick Wilkes** *22:54* Oh, please don't go away. **Cathy Vartuli** *22:57* Oh please don't go away. **Rick Wilkes** *22:59* And I have a bit of conflict about intimacy in my body. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:04* I have a bit of conflict about intimacy in my body. **Rick Wilkes** *23:07* I am so human. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:10* I am so human. **Rick Wilkes** *23:13* Even though part of me doesn't want people to go away. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:18* Even though part of me doesn't want people to go away **Rick Wilkes** *23:22* And I feel a little desperate about that at times. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:26* And I feel a little desperate about that at times. **Rick Wilkes** *23:30* Other parts of me don't want them to get too close. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:34* Other parts of me that want them to get too closed. **Rick Wilkes** *23:40* And right now I want to feel what balance feels like **Cathy Vartuli** *23:46* Right now I want to see what balance really feels like. **Rick Wilkes** *23:50* Top of the head. Don't get too close. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:54* Don't get too close. **Rick Wilkes** *23:56* Eyebrow. Don't go away. **Cathy Vartuli** *23:59* Don't go away. **Rick Wilkes** *24:01* Hey, don't get too close **Cathy Vartuli** *24:04* Don't get that don't get that close. **Rick Wilkes** *24:07* Under the eye. Please don't go away. **Cathy Vartuli** *24:11* Please don't go away. **Rick Wilkes** *24:14* Under nose This push pull within me. Don't get too close, don't go away **Cathy Vartuli** *24:26* Don't get too close, don't go away. **Rick Wilkes** *24:28* Come on, don't go away, don't get too close. **Cathy Vartuli** *24:31* Don't go away, don't get too close **Rick Wilkes** *24:34* And we are I get to have healthy boundaries. **Cathy Vartuli** *24:38* Oh, I get to have healthy boundaries. **Rick Wilkes** *24:43* And I'm inviting my imagination to help me feel for what's the right distance and that it's okay to be closer and further. **Cathy Vartuli** *24:52* I can feel in to find the right distance and it's okay for them to get close and go further. No, it was just long and I'm tired tonight. **Rick Wilkes** *25:09* Yeah, I do that sometimes. Don't be too wordy. Don't be too short. Okay, take a deep breath. And it's a bit like a stretch if you think about the energy of Not too close. Don't go away. There's there's a stretch involved. And this is where energy work, energy exercise like this allows us to stretch a little bit. If you just tap on don't get too close, don't get too close. Don't get to get too close. Too close. You could do a round of that and then don't go away. Please don't go away. Uh you went away. Ah please don't go away. Right? Because we're we're giving our our body mind permission to stretch a little bit. Oftentimes we we get very rigid and contracted in the center. We're just trying to hold it all together. and hold it all together and not show that we're uncomfortable with closeness and we're not um uncomfortable with people moving away. We're trying to hold it together. And holding it together isn't actually resilient. It's it's a bit like, you know, i i if you have uh what's something that you hold a piece of altogether. It's much better to have an orange in its skin than in a bunch of pieces that you're trying to hold all together, especially if you have like six oranges in your arm. Um you start feeling very uncomfortable just trying to hold it together. So Did something come for you? Because I've got uh another idea. **Cathy Vartuli** *26:51* Oh, go ahead. **Rick Wilkes** *26:52* Okay. Eyebrow. I'm trying to hold it together **Cathy Vartuli** *26:59* I'm trying to hold it together. **Rick Wilkes** *27:01* Side of the eye. I don't want to look like a scaredy cat. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:06* I don't want to look like a scaredy cat. **Rick Wilkes** *27:08* Side of the eye. Because I do want healthy connection **Cathy Vartuli** *27:12* I do want to hold the connection. **Rick Wilkes** *27:15* Under the nose. And I've been trying to hold it together. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:19* And I've been trying to hold it together. **Rick Wilkes** *27:25* And I want people to have their freedom. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:28* I do want people to have their freedom. **Rick Wilkes** *27:31* I'd hate it if everyone who ever came over to visit. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:35* I hate I'd hate it if anyone who ever came over to visit. **Rick Wilkes** *27:39* Is was still here. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:42* Was still here. **Rick Wilkes** *27:43* Including the plumber. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:46* Including the plumber. **Rick Wilkes** *27:51* It's okay for people to be close and also to leave. **Cathy Vartuli** *27:57* It's okay for people to be close and also to leave. **Rick Wilkes** *28:00* Top of the head. And I don't want to be abandoned. **Cathy Vartuli** *28:05* And I don't want to be abandoned. **Rick Wilkes** *28:08* Eyebrow. I don't want to die alone. **Cathy Vartuli** *28:11* I don't want to die alone. **Rick Wilkes** *28:14* Side of the eye. And I love connection. **Cathy Vartuli** *28:17* And I love connection. **Rick Wilkes** *28:19* Side the eye. Connection can be so scary. **Cathy Vartuli** *28:24* Connection can be so scary. **Rick Wilkes** *28:27* I don't know. And I have felt at times chained to someone who wasn't good for me. **Cathy Vartuli** *28:35* And I felt at times chained as somebody was not good for me. **Rick Wilkes** *28:39* And that may not be exactly true for everyone, but if it isn't true for you, hold a good thought for someone that you know has been changed. in family or relationship with someone who wasn't good for them. Jen. And there it really was about don't get too close, don't get too far. **Cathy Vartuli** *28:57* It was really about not get don't get too close, don't get too far. **Rick Wilkes** *29:02* But I'm not wanting Chain Gang to be my model of relationship. **Cathy Vartuli** *29:08* I'm not wanting Chain Gang to be my model of relationship. **Rick Wilkes** *29:13* Under the arm. Thank you, Imagination, for working with me. **Cathy Vartuli** *29:18* Thank you, Imagination, for working with me. **Rick Wilkes** *29:22* Top of the head. I want to have harmony in the flow of my relationships. **Cathy Vartuli** *29:27* I want to have harmony in the flow of my relationships. **Rick Wilkes** *29:31* Deeper, deep breath. **Cathy Vartuli** *29:43* So just tune into your body and notice like what what you're feeling because this can bring up a lot of vulnerable feelings. Um it might bring up some anger and that's I'd love to talk a little bit about anger that can come up. Like we when we didn't get to have anger when we were little. A lot of us, like our parents really couldn't handle it. That can be really hard if we have anger that's like in the way. So take a nice deep breath. And notice when someone gets too close or when someone pulls away if there's some anger there. And I just want to do a round of tapping on that. Crowdie Chat, tune into your body. Even though I might have some anger here. **Rick Wilkes** *30:26* Even though I might have some anger here. **Cathy Vartuli** *30:29* They didn't give me enough space. **Rick Wilkes** *30:33* They did not give me enough space. **Cathy Vartuli** *30:37* And sometimes they pulled me too close. **Rick Wilkes** *30:41* And then sometimes they pulled me too close and held me there. **Cathy Vartuli** *30:46* Top of the head, that makes me really angry. **Rick Wilkes** *30:50* That makes me really angry and I don't feel safe **Cathy Vartuli** *30:56* Eyebrow. Sometimes they push me away when I really needed support. **Rick Wilkes** *31:03* And sometimes they push me away when I really and truly needed support. And that makes me feel so sad and angry. **Cathy Vartuli** *31:21* Under those, I'm allowed to feel this anger. **Rick Wilkes** *31:27* I'm allowed to feel this anger. **Cathy Vartuli** *31:35* And I let myself feel it right now. **Rick Wilkes** *31:39* And I let myself feel it. Right now. **Cathy Vartuli** *31:43* Collarbone, I don't have to do anything with it. **Rick Wilkes** *31:47* I don't have to do anything with it **Cathy Vartuli** *31:51* And then the arm I can just feel it. **Rick Wilkes** *31:55* I'm allowing myself to feel it. Feel the anger. **Cathy Vartuli** *32:03* Top of the head, it's not what I want to have between me and people now. **Rick Wilkes** *32:07* It's really not what I want to have between me and people now. **Cathy Vartuli** *32:12* Take a nice deep breath. **Rick Wilkes** *32:17* Oh. And if you if some like I got a flash of a moment with my father where I really wanted his sober, safe attention and boy was that not available. And that flashed for me. So dad, I'm writing it down. Sober safe attention Boat eight years old. Okay. So now I have an example that my body mind has given me. And that's where you can use inner tapping, thrivingnow. com slash inner tapping. You can use that technique. You can write it out in a story and speak it aloud. You can even use your imagination to imagine, okay, so dad's not available. What if there were was someone who could offer me the right balance of closeness and their own safe container and Again, for a lot of people that we we work with and a lot of us on the call, it I believe we're crafting what that safe container looks like in our imagination and in our relationships. We're really trying to figure out. What is the right balance between the container of self, how I feel about myself, my own closeness with my emotions? Like we just got close with our anger. And a lot of people have been like, no, push away, push away, push away. And you probably know some people that are so attached to, you know, um it to their to their anger that it's like indistinguishable from them Anger is an energy, it's a part of us, it doesn't actually consume us. And the more that we bring these awarenesses to the container that is us, It allows us when we are moving in closeness with someone to feel that which is ours, the emotions and experiences which are ours, and that which may be present in the other person. But that's a lot healthier. That's it's also a lot more sensual and beautiful too. It it covers the whole spectrum. **Cathy Vartuli** *34:47* So what you know, notice what you're feeling because it it could be the you know, sometimes we clear off a little anger and there's some sadness, there's grief. There's again nothing wrong with any of these feelings, but if you can start be to be present with them and notice what's there, it's not really often about the person that were present with. Now most of us formed very heavy associations when we were very little. So um if you can just say tune in for a minute. Okay, I'm having all these feelings And I imagine this person getting closer or moving away. What is it? What is that? You know, it's like, what's going on? No big deal. I can just I can just be present with it. Um And just notice where in your body you're feeling stuff. There's there's the more awareness we can bring to someone to to this, the better **Rick Wilkes** *35:44* And we can go back to our first exercise. They're moving away. And what happens in your body? What's the emotion now? We've we've talked about the sensation. Maybe the sensation is or sound is aww or mmm Well they're and and you may be in the state where you're paying attention to them getting too close. But feel for what the emotion is in that spot. Because here's the thing, the sensation of someone moving away it can be tied to many different emotions. It can be like Cathy mentioned, it can be relief, like, ooh, thank goodness. It can be anger, like, how dare you leave me in a time of need and you're walking away. And as you tune into the emotion with the feeling, honor the fact that it's like the sky. It changes, it can change colors. It's still the sky. Look at the sky. Well right now it looks kind of blackish gray. And they're even yeah, and there's some color of the street lights that's bouncing off of it. Yeah, it's still the sky. And the these parts of us that feel the movement of other human beings and their energy, they change. the sensation in them changes as well as the color. The color if we use emotion and color or sound. And this awareness allows, opens up so much emotional intelligence. People talk about emotional intelligence as if You know, it's like, oh, I'm angry. To me, it's a savviness with the colors and tones of the sensations in our body so that we can be aware of them. And if we even eliminated emotional language like anger and use colors and tones and textures, um you would realize the sensuality of what's happening. You'd realize that our senses are picking up so much and our brain actually short circuits and and interprets them. Oh, I'm feeling angry Okay. Yeah, is that kind of the anger that makes you want to grit your teeth and until you break your teeth or you bite someone? Or is it the kind of anger that makes your hands grab and like No! Or is it the kind of anger that makes you want to uh build something different? Those may be very different textures and tones in your in your body. **Cathy Vartuli** *38:35* Yeah, and just tuning in, I think that it was really eye opening to me because for so long I thought I just couldn't understand why people weren't closer to me, like I didn't feel closer to them. And I really thought it was something wrong with me or there was something wrong with them. And I I started realizing when the more I studied it that there was actual behaviors I was doing that was creating that distance. That was n letting people not be too close because I was really afraid. Um, so we talked about like, okay, letting people a little closer, letting people you know, letting people move away, you know, is that safe or not Imagine now that someone's getting most of us have a wall, I think. We have it's okay for people to get so close, but not any closer. Just imagine that someone's starting to walk up, be close enough so they're starting to get near your wall. And notice what you're feeling in your body. Are you claustrophobic? Are you frightened? Are you you know, what emotion is coming up if someone's actually getting close enough to have you like to get near that wall where you're like, ah, anyone inside of here is like, oh that was way too close. Um, because most of us really do long for that kind of closeness So if we can figure out what's you know what we're f afraid of that can help us get figure that out. What do you think would happen if someone got through that wall, if someone actually got closer than that? Take a nice deep breath. And just let's just do a little tapping. Karate chop, even though it doesn't feel safe. **Rick Wilkes** *40:18* Even though it doesn't feel safe. **Cathy Vartuli** *40:21* To let anyone in this clothes. **Rick Wilkes** *40:24* To let anyone in this close. **Cathy Vartuli** *40:27* The truth is I learned that when I was really little. **Rick Wilkes** *40:31* The truth is I learned that when I was really little. **Cathy Vartuli** *40:35* And it probably was true back then. **Rick Wilkes** *40:38* And it probably was true back then. **Cathy Vartuli** *40:42* Top of the head, what if it isn't true anymore? **Rick Wilkes** *40:46* What if it isn't true anymore? **Cathy Vartuli** *40:48* Okay, what if that's an old, old story? **Rick Wilkes** *40:53* What if that's an old old story? **Cathy Vartuli** *40:58* And it's okay to let this person close **Rick Wilkes** *41:02* It's okay to let this person close. **Cathy Vartuli** *41:06* Under the eye, or if not this person, someone else. **Rick Wilkes** *41:09* If not that person, then someone else in my imagination **Cathy Vartuli** *41:15* I don't know. I'm curious what I fear. **Rick Wilkes** *41:24* I'm curious what it is I actually fear. **Cathy Vartuli** *41:30* Tim. Huh. I think I'm afraid of something **Rick Wilkes** *41:37* I think I'm afraid of something. And I may not even be able to put my finger on exactly what, but I feel it. **Cathy Vartuli** *41:45* Calebone, I'm open to exploring this **Rick Wilkes** *41:50* Hmm. I'm open to exploring this. **Cathy Vartuli** *41:54* Maybe I'm I'm figuring out how I can safely move forward. **Rick Wilkes** *41:59* Figuring out how I can safely move forward **Cathy Vartuli** *42:04* Top of the head, it's gonna be okay. **Rick Wilkes** *42:08* It's going to be okay. **Cathy Vartuli** *42:12* Nice deep breath. So just be with your body for a minute. Notice what is what's going on. Sometimes just addressing this stuff can like It's like, oh wow, there's a lot here. And sometimes it's like, oh, I can just let this go. So just be present. It really helps to anchor this when we can be present with what we're noticing And most emotions don't really need anything but our attention. So um if we can just be with them and you know actually appreciate ourselves. I think that's really important. Praticap, even though I have all these emotions. **Rick Wilkes** *42:54* Even though I have all these emotions. **Cathy Vartuli** *42:57* And I've been blaming myself for having them. **Rick Wilkes** *43:00* And I've been blaming my myself for having them. **Cathy Vartuli** *43:04* The truth is I have real legitimate reasons for having them. **Rick Wilkes** *43:09* The truth is, I have real legitimate reasons for having them. **Cathy Vartuli** *43:15* And I can appreciate myself for having them. **Rick Wilkes** *43:19* And I can appreciate myself and accept myself for having them them. **Cathy Vartuli** *43:24* Top of the head doesn't mean I need to hold on to them. **Rick Wilkes** *43:27* It doesn't mean I have to hold on to them. **Cathy Vartuli** *43:31* I love, but I don't need to keep living that old story **Rick Wilkes** *43:36* I don't need to keep living that old story. **Cathy Vartuli** *43:40* Under the eye. And I can love and appreciate the fact that I created that story. **Rick Wilkes** *43:46* I can love and appreciate the fact that I created that story, that interpretation, that way of navigating. **Cathy Vartuli** *43:56* Under the nose, I have legitimate reasons for thinking those things. **Rick Wilkes** *44:00* I have legitimate reasons for thinking those things. **Cathy Vartuli** *44:06* And I'm excited about discovering how I can be different now. **Rick Wilkes** *44:12* And I'm excited about discovering how I can be different now. **Cathy Vartuli** *44:17* Collarbone, I don't have to keep repeating the same old story. **Rick Wilkes** *44:22* I do not have to keep repeating the same old story. **Cathy Vartuli** *44:27* And yeah, I'm curious what news stories I can have. **Rick Wilkes** *44:32* I really want some news stories. **Cathy Vartuli** *44:36* Top the head and I'm curious who I could create them with. **Rick Wilkes** *44:40* And I'm curious who I could create them with. **Cathy Vartuli** *44:43* Nice deep breath. You can raise your hand by pressing start to at any point. **Rick Wilkes** *44:55* And I want to say that that story is is sacred to me. the story of s what's real in a lie for someone, the story of what how someone lived through and lived what was real for them. **Cathy Vartuli** *45:13* And I think it as a negative thing at all. **Rick Wilkes** *45:17* Yeah. And I'm I'm saying this because I want us to embrace that as as storytellers and life livers and we we have the opportunity to Like, if I had described anything that happened to me in the past today at two o'clock. I would describe it and feel it and sense it differently tonight at 1016 after having connected with this subject and this group. We have opportunities to see how some stories are so ingrained in us that they interfere with our now. That's why it's about thriving now. And the stories from our past, as we tune in and shift the energy, we are we're literally rewriting the way that we see it and interpret it. now in a way that's more pleasing and present. Maybe more pleasing sometimes is that we realize how much push-pull has been going on. even though we haven't been making we've felt stuck, but that there's an energy of push pull. I want this, I don't want this, I want them, I don't want them, I want I want and I can't. I can't. Please go come see me. Don't see me. In a in a session amongst friends, a circle of friends. the the energy of I so desperately want to be seen and oh my god I start to cry as soon as I do please don't look at me And this is present in so many of us. This this is an opportunity for you to feel that, come to terms with it. And Yeah. Let it let it start flowing and moving. **Cathy Vartuli** *47:37* Yeah. So just tune into your body again. It's always you know, if you'll you may have noticed a pattern and gets you maybe try to get you back in your body over and over and over again. That's where the truth is, that's where the presence is And that's great. So just be there for a moment and notice which what's coming up for you. This is a big topic for a lot of people. There can be sadness and frustration that, you know, things weren't going quite as fast or well as you like, or oh really, I could have been in my own way all this time. Whatever is coming up, just notice it. And we'd love for you to share if that's a yes for you. Go ahead and press star too. There's a bunch of you on the call. We'd love to hear. Or you can type in the QA box. While we're waiting for that, I think it's also important to realize when we're dealing with big blocks like this, because I mean love is such a thing that can be it's so tender and vulnerable for us. I invite you to tune into why you want to get closer. What's the story, again I mean story as in a positive thing What is it that you want to create? Like what is the experience you want to have? What have you told yourself you would have if you could have that closeness you've been wanting to have? **Rick Wilkes** *49:03* Mm-hmm. **Cathy Vartuli** *49:04* You were you trying to say something? **Rick Wilkes** *49:07* No, I I was I was saying right on. I think that this helps tune to our body to what it's wanting. And I think that for me, I was always clear on I I wanted closeness. I wanted to get to know people. I wanted to know what my friends smell like. I do. I wanna know I wanna know what their their being is like. and to hear the quieter tones of their their presence in in me and sitting close and being close and quiet. Um, I wanted to know how their body plays and how it lifts and and rolls and um That led me to things that are intimate like contact improv where you do a lot of that. I get to know my friends and how they how they are. The harder thing is to know why I want them to go away. And I don't just mean it would get crowded in here. Um I mean, th it it is what is the experience that I want to have both with my s with people moving away from me and me moving away from others Is there is there something sacred in that? In dance they talk about release. If you're holding and holding and holding, there's not an opportunity to to have them go off and, you know, twirl without your hands on them. When I I had a friend over for an hour today and I know that when she left that she was going out in the world differently than she had when she arrived. So one of the whys are is that I want to feel and know and see examples of how my presence in the life of someone for a moment Then gets reflected in their hardestry as they go away from me, when they engage intimately with another person who's not me. When they dance with someone else, when they co-create with someone else, when they're out there in as in service has nothing to do with me and also that I believe that each of us affects one another. I look at the names of the people on this list and my life and the way that I am out in the world. has been touched and affected by each person here. If we were constantly engaging, constantly on a call, well, that would be different. That would that wouldn't allow the space and the the movement for us to bless our larger circle. And for me that is so sacred. I've gotten to the place where the freedom of others to choose their yes away from me, if that's you know, for the time that they we're together, that now is sacred. And when they are in that place where it's right for them to go, even if it means go for an indeterminate amount of time that looks like forever even. That is sacred. That's such freedom in that. And if we don't It by embracing that, it wasn't a salve to my ab abandonment feelings. It was really a re-characterization. And by characterization, I mean who I want to be as a character. You know, uh I believe that humans have a character. Literally, like showing your character. That to me, it was a re-characterization that I love people's freedom. When people leave the team, I may be like, oh, I'm gonna miss you, and good And when they come back, good. And when they choose not to join, good. And there's a sensation in me. That is the same sensation that I would feel leaving my mother to go off to my dad's, the the physical sensors, the physical sensors. the energetic part of me that feels people I care about moving closer and further in physical proximity. I get it when I when I leave you, Cathy, and start flying back home. Uh there is a tremendous shift physiologically in my body, being in your orbit and then being launched by an American airlines somewhere across the country Getting comfortable that that sensation doesn't it it can it can be re-characterized in a way that is conscious, mature, beautiful. um sacred. It doesn't change the fact that that feeling is going to be there. **Cathy Vartuli** *54:30* We can have feelings. Um and we can also learn that I I think that I've had really intense feelings about stuff and I can also learn that, oh, that's not about now and Um it can we we can learn to distinguish past from present. And we can learn that, oh, I'm having this feeling. It doesn't actually mean my heart is being ripped out or whatever it's just a feeling. Um and it gives us some space to um make different choices and not react **Rick Wilkes** *55:06* Yeah. We have a hand raised in the we have a hand raised in this last five minutes. Tina, what is your what is your engagement on this? **Speaker 3** *55:18* Hi. Um well I just had been praying for I don't know, I think it's been about like three years now or something, for a friend. Um to be like a physical friend. I have a lot of friends, you know, like I consider through Thriving Now and things like that, um, that I can't hang out with physically. And I finally met one this summer and she's spiritual in my age and is actually within like biking distance And Pinky saw that um we would call each other and hang out and she did ask me one day to go hiking and I just didn't respond and I I think about her almost every day and I don't know why I'm not um I'm not, I don't know, kind of receiving this gift that the universe has brought me. And it just feels good to bring it up because I think about it a lot. **Speaker 4** *56:24* Well you can imagine uh can you imagine taking a step and inviting her into a conversation? **Speaker 5** *56:35* Nope. I mean the tiny bit. A tiny bit. Okay. **Speaker 4** *56:41* Does that feel like that would be too close? What does it feel like in your body? **Speaker 5** *56:50* It feels like I have Uh like if I talk to her that I'm going to naturally just like expose everything. Um you can wear underwear. **Rick Wilkes** *57:09* Pardon? What? You can wear underwear. You don't have to expose everything. **Speaker 5** *57:15* That's so bad. Yeah. Um eyebrow. **Speaker 4** *57:23* I feel like I'd ex be t I'd be totally exposed. **Speaker 5** *57:27* I feel like I'd be totally exposed **Speaker 4** *57:31* Side of the eye. Hmm. That is too close. **Speaker 5** *57:38* And that's too exposed. Too much at once. **Speaker 4** *57:42* Oh. Under the eye. Maybe my imagination can help me retune. **Speaker 5** *57:49* Maybe my imagination can help me retune. **Speaker 4** *57:54* Under the nose. So it would so it might feel like a really good connection. **Speaker 5** *58:02* Yeah, so that it would feel like a really good connection. **Speaker 4** *58:07* Deep breath **Speaker 5** *58:19* Yeah, I kind of have the sense um that it feels I feel a little more confident that I d that I'm not going to um I um maybe that I have a little more control over how Um close I get to someone in uh maybe a nice like comfortable amount of time, not everything right away. Mm-hmm. **Rick Wilkes** *58:53* Yeah, and sometimes that's balancing out our own inner desperation. **Speaker 5** *59:00* Yeah. Okay. **Rick Wilkes** *59:03* And I I will say I will say that that that can be a that's a that I use my imagination all the time to balance out my inner you know, my inner need for connection. So that you know, I'll imagine having someone rub my feet or rubbing someone's feet and I'll do that. I'll take a nap and cuddle up with someone. There's no one actually there. At least in the physical. If you took a s snapshot, you're not going to see anyone else. Um and that helps me tune my body that this is this is what I want, this is where I live, this is my character. I you know, and I even attract friends who at some point I might ask them, you know, hey, sometimes I feel like, you know, it might be fun if when I'm taking a nap to have you rest your head on my my shoulder, how do you feel about that? Oh, I love that. And sometimes that's the answer. And I don't necessarily share that in the first the first meeting. We cultivate. And that's like having words like cultivating closeness And relaxing into the moving away, cultivating closeness, offering an invitation, maybe having a menu of things that you're open to talking about And having an idea of what you might say if that's a l if something's a little too intimate I'd love to we we could we we would love to work more on this. This subject is really dear because this give and take, the closeness and release um the the movement of the orbits of powerful people that we really care about and getting comfortable with those sensations so that we recognize them as We can still get intuitive information from them, but they're not as strainful. This can really make a difference in our circle and in our community. It allows us to say yes and know that we have the ability to play around. Even as you're walking down a hiking path, you can play around with how close are we? Who's in the lead? Who's in the follow? Are we talking or are we quiet? All right. **Speaker 5** *01:01:20* Yeah. **Rick Wilkes** *01:01:20* Would you like to bring this back to another call? **Speaker 5** *01:01:23* Yes, I would. **Rick Wilkes** *01:01:26* I look forward to it. Thank you, Gina. **Cathy Vartuli** *01:01:33* Appreciate everyone being here for a tough situ tough conversation. **Rick Wilkes** *01:01:39* Tough and meaningful. That's what we're about. Thank you, Gabby. **Cathy Vartuli** *01:01:46* Thanks, Rick. **Rick Wilkes** *01:01:47* Thanks every everyone. **Cathy Vartuli** *01:01:50* Thank you guys. **Rick Wilkes** *01:01:52* Thank you. Appreciate you being here. And we would love more thoughts if you if this has resonated with you but it wasn't in a place where you wanted to share, drop us a note, support at thrivingnow. com, and it'll help us tune for future calls as well. Okay. Aye. **Speaker 4** *01:02:13* Good night. **Speaker 5** *01:02:14* Good night. Aye, good night.